S. Truett Cathy: RIP – What Can the Church Learn from the Same-Sex Debate?

Unknown-3Last Thursday I noted the passing of the controversial Irish Presbyterian minister, Rev. Ian Paisley. In the same Sunday newspaper (September 14) there was also mention of the passing, at the age of 93, of S. Truett Cathy. Cathy, as many will know by the mention of his name, is the founder and billionaire who built the famous restaurant chain, Chick-fil-A. The chain is known for many reasons, one of which is that it is closed on Sunday. The other, at least in the images and thoughts of millions who view the popular culture, is the amazingly funny commercials that are aired on television with cows telling us why we should “Eat More Chikin.”

Cathy opened his first restaurant in an Atlanta suburb in 1946. HIs boneless chicken sandwich would propel the franchise to more than 1,800 outlets in 39 states. By 2013 the company said that its annual sales topped $5 billion. The company is family-owned thus it is the Cathy family who seem poised to continue to hold to the core values that their father promoted. Cathy’s personal fortune is said to have been in excess of $6 billion, putting him annually on the Forbes magazine list of the wealthiest Americans. The company listed him as chairman emeritus on its website since he had left day-to-day operations to the younger leaders in the family some years ago.

Unlike Ian Paisley, who I wrote about yesterday, S. Truett Cathy never publicly altered his stance on several “hot-button” issues. This was especially true with regard to the same-sex marriage debate which he actively spoke about. But what the press often failed to notice was how much the company had changed its tone and direction under the influence of his sons.

UnknownDan Cathy, the chief operating officer of the company, got involved in a much-ballyhooed controversy about same-sex marriage in 2012. This controversy, which spilled over into political contexts such as the Chicago City Council. Some members of the council sought to stop the chain from opening a restaurant in the city. Related stories about the company were still making news even last week in California.

The larger controversy about Chick-fil-A, and same-sex marriage debate in particular, has slowly died down. But the virtually uncovered story over the last few years was sadly missed by most outlets when a leading LGBT spokesman was invited to spend personal time with Dan Cathy in 2013. Thankfully, this story was reported by the Huffington Post. The video is well worth seeing.

I get the sense that the younger Cathy leaders are committed to approaching this controversial issue with a different approach even if their views (morally and politically) remain the same as those of their father. To some extent this is shift is similar to the wide-scale generational movement that we are seeing among many Christians who are growing weary of this being “the” political hot-button issue that creates the biggest hill to die on in the culture.

As I look at this hugely contentious issue among Christians I am reminded that for us, and for our churches, this issue really has three major components: (1) Political, (2) Pastoral, and (3) Missional.

Unknown-2I do believe there is a political side to this issue. This issue is not unimportant. But I am profoundly convinced that the Christian Right has lost this battle politically. What concerns me is whether or not conservative Christians can move on to the two much more important issue, namely the pastoral and missional. Can we learn how to love and care for people of same-sex orientation and practice? And, even more importantly, can we learn how to live in a radically changing culture as God’s people who love the world and also live in it missionally? The global figure who most represents the way forward for the church is none other than Pope Francis. He is calling us to the second and third response in a powerful and pastoral way. I wonder who is listening. The Catholic Church will not embrace marriage between same-sex partners as sacrament for very compelling and deeply Christian reasons. But the pope is seeking to show us a far better way to engage with a world that starves to hear good news, not ecclesial judgment.

Posted in American Evangelicalism, Culture, Current Affairs, Evangelism, Gospel/Good News, Love, Marriage & Family, Missional Church, Personal, Politics, Roman Catholicism, Sacraments, The Future | Leave a comment

Rev. Ian Paisley: RIP

UnknownI was reading the “Notable Deaths” page in my Sunday newspaper (September 14) and came across the news of the passing of the famous Irish Presbyterian minister, Ian Paisley. The AP report said: “Paisley [was] the Protestant firebrand who devoted his life to thwarting compromise with Catholics in Northern Ireland only to become a pivotal peacemaker in his twilight years.” Paisley was 88 when he passed away last Friday.

Ian Paisley was bigger than life in so many ways. (He was a big man and his voice and size could intimidate you very quickly!) I never heard Paisley preach in person but I listened to him a number of times via audio tape, online audio and television. He was a marvelous orator.

Oddly enough I was browsing in a Christian bookstore in suburban Toronto (Ontario) about twenty years ago when I heard this distinctive voice and turned to see if it really was Ian Paisley. It was the real Ian Paisley in the flesh. My first instinct was to draw back and avoid him. (Like I noted, he could intimidate one very easily.) But I went up to him and introduced myself (as best I recall now). We had a very brief chat. He even told me to buy a particular book he had in his hands from the store shelves. He was personally warm, even charming. Mutual friends, who knew him quite well, have told me of this side of Ian Paisley since I met him. So I read things by him and about him after I met him. I followed his life the last few decades and was utterly amazed when he became a pivotal peacemaker” in his “twilight years.”

The Wikipedia entry on Paisley begins with these words:

Ian Richard Kyle Paisley, Baron Bannside, (6 April 1926 – 12 September 2014) was a Unionist politician and Protestant religious leader from Northern Ireland.

He became a Protestant evangelical minister in 1946 and would remain one for the rest of his life. In 1951 he co-founded the fundamentalist Free Presbyterian Church and was its leader until 2008. Paisley became known for his fiery speeches and regularly preached and protested against Catholicismecumenism and homosexuality. He gained a large group of followers who were referred to as ‘Paisleyites.’

Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, himself a devout Catholic Christian (and more recent convert), said of Rev. Paisley: “Ian was a man of deep convictions. The convictions never changed. But his appreciation of the possibilities of peace gradually, and with much soul-searching, did.”

Paisley was, if he was anything, the definition of strident. He was also courageous and intensely interesting. He had a great laugh that could disarm you once you got beyond his bombastic public side. Ironically, Paisley was one of the few strongly Reformed ministers that I think was ever invited to preach at Bob Jones University. I am inclined to think that this underscores how much the leadership at BJU appreciated his stridency and courage.

I could share stories about Paisley that would make you cringe. I could also tell you things I knew about Ian Paisley that would make you appreciate his humanity, warmth and genuine expressions of love for Christ. But this is not the time or place. What I can say is that his latter years give me immense hope. Sometimes men who age do so very gracefully. Some have said they grow weak and compromise. I think some begin to “see” more clearly that being a “peacemaker” is truly part of following Christ and must become as important as being courageous and convictional. Perhaps this is why Paisley’s passing spoke to my own life. I was never a strident fighter but I was not a convictional peacemaker in my earlier years. I took immense encouragement in seeing the elderly Ian Paisley seek peace in Northern Ireland. That took, so far as I am concerned, as much courage as it took to stand so strongly for his views for so many decades. It felt like betrayal to some of his best friends. I understand this and relate to it deeply.

I have come full circle at this point to the words used by the Associated Press to describe this larger-than-life man. AP said Paisley was a Protestant “firebrand” who “devoted his life to thwarting compromise with Catholics.” Unknown-1I can handle both of those in their right place. I can even respect, at least to some degree, such views if they are honestly situated within a context of a courageous love that truly pursues peace and justice. Paisley seems to have discovered this very late in his life. That gives me great joy and hope. Enemies can become friends! Firebrands can become peacemakers! Anti-Catholics can learn how to listen to Catholics with respect and love!

Paisley’s overall narrative is not a model for me, at least not in terms of his lifelong legacy. Yet his last years bring me immense hope when I see how men like him, who seem impossible to get along with relationally, can and do change. The Spirit is always working, especially in the most broken among us. This means that people like some of you will change. But most of all this includes me. As I look back over the fifteen years or so of my thirties, and my early forties, I often feel like “the chief of sinners” when it comes to rhetorical flourishes that divided Christian from Christian over doctrine and political conflict. At times I still live with intense regret about this part of my life. What I must do is continually seek the Spirit’s grace to love more deeply because God never stopped loving and changing me. I was thus profoundly thankful, when I read the Paisley obituary, that the Spirit never stopped working in the life of Ian Paisley, a really big and intimidating Irish Presbyterian. My guess is that Ian Paisley will be most remembered, and this will be with profound joy by many who knew him, for his latter years of life. This also means, if I am right, that for the largest portion of his public life, the years in which he lived in constant militant conflict, his work will come to nothing truly lasting. I say this because “faith, hope and love” abide but the only one that truly abides forever is love.

imagesReflecting on Ian Paisley’s life makes me ask: “Can people of profound conviction become convictional peacemakers who are filled with grace and truth?” I think Ian Paisley did exactly this in his last years. I also think that if he could speak to us now he would point all of us to his Savior and tell us that his last years were the most important ones in all his years of service for Christ and his kingdom. Rev. Ian Paisley, warrior and peacemaker, RIP.

Posted in Current Affairs, Death, Ideology, Love, Personal, Politics, Protestantism, Reformed Christianity, The Church, Unity of the Church | 1 Comment/Like

Love Alone Is Eternal (Part Nine)

256690_w185In this series of posts called “Love Alone Is Eternal” I earlier referred to what one writer calls “the art of unknowing.” This idea is taken from the title of a classic medieval book, The Cloud of Unknowing. This anonymous work comes from the fourteenth century but it expresses something about the Christian faith that was more widely known in the Christian East for centuries.

In the East “dogma” is never understood as doctrine which explains or defines the truth. Dogma defines or explains what is not true. It was used, as we saw earlier, to explain heresy and error. Simply put, this means that in order to understand the mystery of the faith we must let go of errors and rest in the Truth, who is not a series of dogmas but a divine person.

In The Cloud of Unknowing the author makes a statement that shall guide me throughout this book. “But now, you put a question to me asking, ‘How shall I think about him, and what is he?’ And to this, I can only answer, ‘I do not know.’”

I cannot resolve the problems that you will have in coming to “see” that God is, in his essence and nature, love. I will offer some insights, stories, poems and ideas. But I cannot resolve all the problems. You will have doubts if you employ rational arguments and carry on internal debates.

Such debates will only confirm our reason’s illusion that Truth is subject to judgment. It we refuse to accept our unknowing and search for some of of “high” or even esoteric knowledge that would explain it all, and forever do away with our doubts, our thinking may become more complicated and confused. We may get lost in a morass of speculation and ind-boggling interpretations, theories and fantasies. We may “solve” the Mystery but lose our rationality and our faith (Irma Zaleski, Who Is God?, 75-76).

We must face our doubts. Name them one by one. And then let go of each one of them by falling into the mystery of Truth. We must, as Irma Zaleski says so eloquently, shout at our doubts: “I don’t know!” These doubts are not a sign of confusion or unbelief. They are a sign of Truth, Truth that is wider and deeper than all our human thinking and explaining. “Doubt, like all products of thought, is irrelevance to faith” (Irma Zaleski, Who Is God?, 76).  This struggle can actually help us to embrace the limits of our thought, and thus doubt can be the very place where we grow in our hearts by “unknowing.”

The greatest danger of all – to faith, hope and love – is to presume that we can understand God. Doubt acts as a governor on faith to help us face down our arrogant presumptions, to lead us to admit just how little we really know. The Zen masters are right when they say that doubt has a way of helping us to “begin again.” Our Christian ancestors understood this very well. We moderns have forgotten it. I hope you will recover it.


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Love Alone Is Eternal (Part Eight)

The Old Testament regularly sounds this theme, especially in what we call the wisdom literature (e.g. Job 27:3; 33:4; 34:14-15; Ps. 104:29-30). God upholds the creation through his Spirit. Even the natural processes of everyday life on our planet are credited by Jesus to the direct agency of his Father when he speaks of his Father providing sunshine and rain, feeding the birds and providing the beauty of the flowers (Matt. 5:45; 6:25-30; 10:29-30).

Extreme forms of immanence lead to pantheism, the belief that every creature is not only a manifestation of God, but is identical with God. A similar problem, and one that became more popular in the last century, is panentheism. Panentheism literally means “all-in-God” and posits the idea of God as an eternally animating force that interpenetrates every part of nature and yet timelessly extends beyond it. Unlike pantheism this thinking about God maintains a better Creator-creation distinction but it tends toward believing that the cosmos exists within God, thus it denies, in some way at least, the creation-Creator distinction required by a proper emphasis upon transcendence.

The simple way to say this is to affirm that God is both distant (transcendent) and near (immanent). He really is actively present and working in all things (cf. Romans 8:28-30). Yet he is “beyond” our universe. This means that we should always conceive of God as very near while we should never put him inside the world in such a way that he does not remain exalted over it and outside of it!

The Wonders of Creation

The vast majority of people who have ever lived have claimed some kind of belief in sacred mystery – God. It is sometimes argued, by modern secular writers, that the reason for this belief is that all pre-moderns were taught to think this way and people have simply found their beliefs confirmed by life experience. The conviction of the reality of God, or sometimes of multiplicity of gods as in Hinduism, is a common human characteristic it seems. Even moderns still believe in higher numbers than some would have us to believe. Throughout history a basic trait of all cultures has been a belief in divine transcendence.

Some reason that creation provides a strong argument for order and wonder, thus for the Creator. We are experiencing a revival of this type of “wonder” today. It is coming in a spiritual version of “back to nature.” Millions of young people in the West say they believe in God and experience him/her in a hike in the woods or rafting down a great river. But is this experience of “wonder” proof of God? Certainly not. These glorious experiences in nature feed what I believe is an internal sense of mystery, or divine wonder. We all share in this but this is not proof of God. And it is especially not proof that “God is love.”

Unknown-4Anthony de Mello expressed what I am trying to say by telling a simple Hindu story of what truly seeing the power of nature meant.

“Excuse me,” said an ocean fish. “You are older than I, so can you tell me where to find this thing they call the ocean?”

The ocean,” said the older fish, “is the thing you are in now.”

“Oh, this? But this is water. What I’m seeking is the ocean,” said the disappointed fishy as he swam away to search elsewhere (Anthony de Mello, The Song of the Bird (Garden City, NY: Doubleday and Company, 1982, 12).

If you pressed the Hindu storyteller to explain the moral of this story he would likely say the disappointed fish must come to know that he is not to look for something. Instead, he must look at the reality that is constantly surrounding him. This is how it is with our search for God. This is what Paul meant when he quoted ancient pagan poets who said: “For in him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). God is a vast ocean and we cannot explain him so much as can simply knowing that he is and wonder.

People of faith believe, in one way or another, that God is the ultimate reality. They structure their lives, in various religious and non-religious ways, around the reality of God. Humans cannot be forced or coerced into such faith. We can only receive the witness given to faith and believe it or not believe it. Proof of God’s existence is tenuous, especially to skeptics. Proof of a personal, loving God– who is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit – is impossible to prove. Yet people who have come to know Christ are right when they structure their entire life around this truth: “God is love.”


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Moses: A Man Powerful in Word & Deed

In concluding a sermon series on the faith of our ancient fathers the Lutheran Church of the Master in Carol Stream (IL) completed a summer series with the story of Moses on August 24. I preached the last sermon in this series on Moses which included the story of the exodus of the children of Abraham from Egypt and the subsequent formation of the nation through the giving of the covenant and law at Sinai. It is hard to get much of this great story into thirty minutes but I did my best. The text for this sermon is Exodus 1:8–2:10.

Listen to the sermon here.

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Love Alone Is Eternal (Part Seven)

How do we understand God? Careful readers of the Bible since the time of the Jesus and the apostles have sought to understand the answer to this question, thus the meaning of certain prominent and recurring theological terms.  I am persuaded that the most basic of all questions really does come down to this: “How do we define or conceive of God?”

Unknown-2The late evangelical theologian Stanley J. Grenz said, “Perhaps the most deeply ingrained conception among Christian views of God as a being – albeit an eternal, uncreated being – who is both present within and exists beyond the world of created beings” (Stanley J. Grenz, Theology for the Community of God. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans 1994, page 78). This kind of thinking corresponds, at least to a certain extent, with the very language that the Bible uses about God, particularly in the Old Testament. Yet, as Grenz notes a great deal of this type of thinking about God owes its prominence to Greek philosophy, especially to Plato and Aristotle. This thinking led to the commonly accepted idea of an unchangeable God. In the twentieth century this kind of thinking has come under severe attack from every side, both inside and outside the church. The result has been a huge debate about time, eternity, God’s mind, his openness, etc.

In the midst of this century-long debate I think one thing stands out clearly – “The traditional discussion of God as a being is no longer helpful” (Grenz, 80).  I believe that the central truth we should take away from this oft confusing debate is that there is no God but the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. God is one but he is three persons bound together in a loving, social and perfect union. What this means, if you can bear a little theological sidebar for a moment, is this – the God of the Bible is the Father, the Son and the Spirit in their eternal inter-personal relations with one another. God transcends the world because God is self-sufficient apart from the world. He doesn’t need the world to be God. He is above the universe and comes to our world from beyond it; “God is in heaven, and you upon earth” (Ecclesiastes 5:2). Isaiah reported seeing the Lord, something rarely ever stated in the Bible. He said he saw God “seated on a throne, high and exalted” (Isa. 6:1). This is what I mean by transcendence. The extreme of transcendence is deism, the belief in a supreme creator who takes no active part, nor has any personal concern, for the world or human persons.

But God is also immanent. This means that God is always present to creation. He is not a passive watchmaker but a personal God who is involved with the natural processes of the world as well as with human events. Here is how Paul describes God’s immanence.

Then Paul stood in front of the Areopagus and said, “Athenians, I see how extremely religious you are in every way. For as I went through the city and looked carefully at the objects of your worship, I found among them an altar with the inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, he who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by human hands, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mortals life and breath and all things. From one ancestor he made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him—though indeed he is not far from each one of us. For ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said,

‘For we too are his offspring.’ (Acts 17:22-30, NRSV).


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Lausanne Catholic-Evangelical Conversation

Today the second global Lausanne Catholic-Evangelical Conversation begins at Mundelein Seminary, near Chicago. I have the joy of leading this small group dialogue. Tonight there is an “open” conversation at Mundelein and you are welcome to come. If you have not registered it is free at ACT3.

UnknownOur special evening event begins at 7:00 p.m. It is a dialogue between Catholic and evangelical Protestant leaders who are in conversation about the work of global evangelization and Christian unity. Fr. Robert Barron, rector of Mundelein Seminary, and Rev. Norberto Saracco, pastor and evangelical Protestant leader from Buenos Aires, will each present a response to the subject: “Pope Francis and Unity in Mission Between Catholics and Evangelicals.” (Norberto is a personal friend of Pope Francis.) Responses will be offered to both presenters by Fr. Thomas Baima (Mundelein Seminary) and Rev. John Armstrong (ACT3 Network). The audience will then be encouraged to ask questions. The presentations will be made in Spanish and English, with attenders given the printed talk in their language of choice at the door.

Registration is free but seating is limited so please register online. The Conference Center at Mundelein Seminary located at 1000 E. Maple Ave. Mundelein, IL 60060.

Pray for me as I lead 26 people in a two-day conversation that we all pray will result in deeper unity and greater oneness of presenting the gospel to the whole world.

Posted in ACT 3, Discipleship, Evangelism, Missional-Ecumenism, Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, The Church, The Future | 1 Comment/Like

Love Alone Is Eternal (Part Six)

The great English writer and poet Christopher Dawson said poetry is “the language in which man explores his amazement.” The same could be said of all great art, literature and philosophy. Yet above all this much more can be said about Christian faith. I believe we can only become truly open to eternal love when we have the “eyes to see.” These “eyes” come from grace alone.

The biblical statement “God is love” cannot be reduced to “God is loving toward us” or “God performs loving actions.” The statement “God acts in a loving way” is true but even this affirmation speaks of what God does. The biblical affirmation that “God is love” goes much, much further. It introduces us to the interior life of God – thus we can and should say that God is more than loving – because God is triune. As triune God’s love existed before anything created ever existed. Here is how the apostle expresses this when he writes of his own experience of God’s revelation in Jesus Christ:

We declare to you what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— this life was revealed, and we have seen it and testify to it, and declare to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us— we declare to you what we have seen and heard so that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. We are writing these things so that our joy may be complete (1 John 1:1-4, NRSV).

The true God is revealed in a relationship that results in us entering  into communion with the Father and the Son. The entire discourse of our Savior given on the night in which he was betrayed and went out to face his own death (John 13-17) uses the language of communion and relationship. The prayer Jesus prayed for us, who believe in him today, is astounding when read in terms of this relational language idea. Read this prayer and realize that this is the Lord’s Prayer, at least the Lord’s Prayer for you and me. I have highlighted the portions of Jesus’ prayer that demonstrate the relational mystery of our union with the Trinity.

“I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. Father, I desire that those also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory, which you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world (John 17:20-24, NRSV).

Words like these underscore the truth that we call the social Trinity – Father, Son and Holy Spirit in eternal communion. Salvation is much more than rescue from perdition. It is a relationship of love that binds us to each person of the Trinity through the mystery of redeeming grace. This revelation of the divine mystery of God’s being means that God is eternally relational. This also means that whether anything else existed or not God would still be eternal love because the three persons who comprise the one God are a “relational” and “eternal” Trinity. The important thing to see here is that God is not an impersonal being with an abstract nature. The God who reveals himself is Father, Son and Holy Spirit – a living, joyous, interpersonal reality. “At the core of all being, there was, and there is, fully actualized mutual love, an indescribably rich, inimitably relational, intensely personal plenitude.” (In material I propose to write on the Trinity I will look at this truth much more carefully at a later date.)


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Jeff’s Story

Last week I shared Sophia’s story. If you did not read this blog and see the video then please go back to September 2. Read my words and watch the 90-second video. Maybe even share this material with your church, your pastor, or your outreach team.

I am personally called to promote a vision I call “missional-ecumenism.” One way this vision works best is to get local churches to work in partnership as they reach into public space with the good news. In one case I know about here in the Chicago region a Catholic Church, and two Protestant churches, began a Crossroads Kids Club together.

I believe that we must get outside our church buildings and church systems and make new disciples. From what I can see this is not happening, or rarely happening. We should begin with children before they are adolescents. Why? Far too soon these children will find their identity and cultural formation from a gang, or at a minimum from entirely anti-Christian influences. Crossroads can change this pattern. But without local churches who will step out and act with vision and faithfulness it will not work.

Today I share “Jeff’s Story,” a wonderful story of life-transformation.

One of the advantages of seeing this ministry up close for all these years is that I now see the longterm fruit of Crossroads being reproduced in changed lives. This is not theory. Readers of my frequent posts might be inclined to think that I am “down” on most church outreach. The truth is that I am down on most of it because it doesn’t work and it is not solidly rooted in telling the Great Story. Crossroads is different. It tells the Christian story, over a three-year period, and it does this very incarnationally. The curriculum is solid, the ideas are tested and the fruit is solid and real.

I would be pleased beyond words if a movement for such clubs spanned the nation. You can be one of these pioneers who helps to feed this vital movement. Contact Crossroads for yourself.

I am often asked, “If you do not think we can change our culture through politics, and I am sure that we cannot, then how would you propose that we change it?” Here is a positive answer. It may be the best I’ve seen to be really honest. Mobilize Christians to reach the most reachable and teachable in our communities. If you change these kids you will impact (and potentially) change the future. I dare you to try!

It has always interested me how very few Christians have any idea how the Sunday School movement began. As a result most Christians think that Sunday School is all about educating children from Christian homes. Nothing could be further from the truth. I encourage you to read the Sunday School story online. Once you have read this story you should be able to easily see why the “real” answer to the modern need for reaching and educating children lies somewhere outside the church. Most kids from non-Christian homes will have no realistic opportunity to know the Bible, or hear the gospel, unless  something like Crossroads grows and reproduces itself into a large and national movement.

Posted in ACT 3, American Evangelicalism, Discipleship, Evangelism, Love, Missional-Ecumenism, Personal, The Church, The Future | Leave a comment

Let’s Talk with Mark Elfstrand – August 15, 2014

I mentioned in my September 3 blog post that I would appear on Mark Elfstrand’s Chicago program (4:00 to 6:00 p.m.) on WYLL as a “Resident Theologian.” Here is a short appearance I made with Mark taken from a live broadcast on Friday, August 15. It includes my response to his question about the pastoral ministry of Mark Driscoll in Seattle. I had declined to provide a public response to Mark’s very public issues until I was asked a straightforward question on this particular program. Listen if you would like to hear how I responded to the concerns that surround Rev. Driscoll.


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